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chino69
Reply with quote  #17 
Just one more point to add to this discussion.

There is a whole market of handguns, holsters, tactical gear, etc. that are designed to appeal to people who feel they need superior firepower and force to withstand a gunfight they are likely to never be in. Do yourself a favor and take a course that covers the justification and laws regarding the use of deadly force. This would be money speny wisely and may prevent you from getting into a legal place you hadn't counted on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong proponent of the right to carry and defend oneself. I see too many people who really haven't cultivated the mindset necessary to deal with a life or death situation involving the use of a firearm. Decent responsible training and knowledge of the laws are as valuable as the sidearm you'll be carrying.

Lou Baccino
Goofycat
Reply with quote  #18 
Lou, I absolutely agree. I have taken such a course and found it extremely valuable, especially from the standpoint that if I ever am unfortunate enough to find myself in a compromised situation, I want to make sure that I am not the one who ends up behind bars for not following the laws now in place that cover when NOT to use deadly force. I also have several books on the subject and am well familiar with the hurdles that can result.

The last thing I want to do is shoot anyone, and I certainly do not take the responsibility of using deadly force lightly. We both realize (at least I do) that an attorney in a court situation can bend the truth like a pretzel in front of a jury to the point where he can make the good guy appear far worse than the perpetrator.
Brodie
Reply with quote  #19 
I have to commend you guys......on our canadian gun forum this thread would be deleted and the original poster would likely be banned, or at least be given an infraction. Here you get 3 pages with the majority of the posts beig helpful. We are definately doing things worng up here in the north.
Goofycat
Reply with quote  #20 
Well, Brodie, this is what America is all about, and the right to express our beliefs and opinions is one of the things for which we fought the Revolutionary War. It is sad that people have been and would still be executed for saying the "wrong" thing.

If you get tired of being in Canada and want to move down, you would be welcomed. It doesn't take much to live here. You don't even have to be a citizen.
chino69
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofycat
Lou, I absolutely agree. I have taken such a course and found it extremely valuable, especially from the standpoint that if I ever am unfortunate enough to find myself in a compromised situation, I want to make sure that I am not the one who ends up behind bars for not following the laws now in place that cover when NOT to use deadly force. I also have several books on the subject and am well familiar with the hurdles that can result.

The last thing I want to do is shoot anyone, and I certainly do not take the responsibility of using deadly force lightly. We both realize (at least I do) that an attorney in a court situation can bend the truth like a pretzel in front of a jury to the point where he can make the good guy appear far worse than the perpetrator.


I hope more people read these threads and understand what we are saying. In 1975 I was a correctional officer working from 4p.m. to midnight. I received my training from the Dept. of Justice Bureau of Prisons at The State Correctional Facility at Dallas, PA. We received a very thorough and extensive amount of training with a fair amount covering the legalities regarding the use of deadly force. Our instructor was a man by the name of Frank Patts who trained all of the PA. State Police, Correctional Officers, etc. I still carry key points that he emphasized in my head to this very day.

I had a cell block of approx. 80 inmates. One of the inmates threatened my life, told me he knew where I lived and would see me when he got released. Several weeks later I came face to face with this inmate as I opened the full length wooden gate leading to my backyard. When I opened the door, this inmate was on the other side and we were three feet apart. Within seconds, I had my .357 Ruger Security Six cleared of gunleather and pointing directly at his mouth. The training I received prevented me from killing this unarmed piece of scum. This is the point I am trying to make; get some training, know the laws and don't listen to gun mag writers or para-military wanna bees. Those kind of people can get you into big trouble.

If you shoot an unarmed man, unless he's in your house, you had better have solid justification. The arriving police don't care that you used a Les Baer tricked .45 ACP in a Milt Sparks Summer Special holster loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs; your ass is going to be arrested. Do your homework, know your state laws, develop the necessary mindset and be prepared. Realize that many situations can be readily defused by the mere brandishing of a sidearm. Don't think you are a SWAT team member or an elite warrior and you'll not be on the other side of the bars looking out.

Lou Baccino
rayjay
Reply with quote  #22 
I have only had 3 occasions to pull my weapon and all 3 were due to aggresive dogs. In all 3 occasions I didn't fire because the situation didn't require it. In the last scene the dog was at my wife's feet [ she had scooped up our Scottie ] and my weapon was within a foot of the dogs body. If he had crouched to lunge I would have fired. The dog instead went back into his own yard and we continued our walk.

If you ever pull the trigger your life is going to be complicated for a while. You have to be left with no choice.

In the last scene I was dressed in a tee shirt and Dickies work shorts, hat and shoes. Not much space to conceal carry something that really requires a holster. KelTec P11 9mm in the pocket, S&W 12 round mag so I have a full grip. It's always there. Light enough to not be a bother and small enough to conceal. As has been mentioned, if you don't have it with you ALWAYS, then it is useless.

On our walks [along with the P11] I now carry a large can of Bear Spray. If the dog's owner isn't going to do any dog training then I will
chino69
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjay
I have only had 3 occasions to pull my weapon and all 3 were due to aggresive dogs. In all 3 occasions I didn't fire because the situation didn't require it.

On our walks [along with the P11] I now carry a large can of Bear Spray. If the dog's owner isn't going to do any dog training then I will


Ray,
You are exhibiting the very type of restrained and responsible behavior I was alluding to; use the appropriate amount of force to difuse the situation. I do the same thing when I'm riding my mountain bike by carrying pepper spray. If an agressive dog gets too close, he gets a snoot full of pepper spray. I also have a sidearm in the handlebar pouch I've never had to use.

Many dog owners are either not aware or don't care that their pets are their responsibility. If a dog attacks a person on a state or county road, the owner is liable for any damages.

Several years ago I had to spray a very agressive dog with pepper spray to keep him from attacking while riding my bike. The bimbo that owned him started screaming at me that she was going to call the police. I told her to call and I would wait until the police arrived so that I could file charges against her. I also informed her it was within my legal right to have shot and killed her unruly animal as it attacked me on a state road. Needless to say this urban moron realized she would fare the worse if the police arrived and heeded my warnings. That dog is now restrained.

Lou Baccino
rayjay
Reply with quote  #24 
Lou,

After the last encounter where the dog's owner watched the whole scene from his driveway I expected that he would call the police on me for brandishing my weapon [ even though it was always pointed at the dog and NEVER towards the idiot owner ]. As we were continuing our walk I warned the wife to be prepared for that possibility. I also said that I wouldn't be surprised that there would be several police cars and that they would perform a felony arrest with drawn weapons, me on the ground, etc.

Didn't happen so I guess he might have had enough sense to know that his calling the police would end up bad for him, not me. We haven't seen the dog since that episode. You actually wouldn't know a dog lived at the house unless you noticed the empty dog food bags in the recycling basket.

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