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Benjerman08
Reply with quote  #1 
I recently bought a savage markII .22 rifle. Also a nice (expensive) leupold rimfire scope to go with it. I have around 600.00 in this gun with bipod,sling etc. Very sharp looking gun. The problem is, is that it just doesn't want to group worth a damn. I have tried about every type of ammo available locally. CCI quicksilver is a little better than everything i have tried, but the groups are still at best 1 1/2" at 50 yards. This is off of sandbags. I have an open sighted 40 year old sears and roebuck .22 that will shoot that good. Any ideas? Is this rifle inherently unaccurate? I do not get along with the accu-trigger either. My long range 243AI has a jewel, so maybe i am too used to that. Thanks.
scout1
Reply with quote  #2 
Benjerman,

Check you action screws, check the bases for your scope. Find some CCI green tag or Federal GMM #719 - either of them with 40 grn heads and a velocity under 1200 fps

I'll bet your barrel dosent like the high velocity stuff
Benjerman08
Reply with quote  #3 
Checked all the screws and everything was tight. I bought some sub sonic remingtons locally to try and it was about the same. No green tag here, but I will get some. What I DID do was give it a thorough cleaning. This greatly helped and I am now shooting 3 in a nickel with cci mini mags at 50yrds. Maybe I got some erroneous information here locally. I was told that .22s need very infrequently cleaning. The gun had about 100 rounds through it before cleaning, but it did not shoot good at first either. I was also told that new 22s dont need any type of barrel break in. Is my barrel now "breaking in" good? I would be very interested on oppinions about 22 break in, cleaning regimens, cleaning products (no copper to foul right?) etc. Thanks to all.
JoeM57
Reply with quote  #4 
It has always been my understanding that there is a barrel break in time (this pretty much holds true with any firearm), the number of shots dependent on the firearm itself as no one can say for sure the exact number of rounds it takes to break in a barrel. They can guess close, but that's about it.

As for cleaning? You'll probably get lots of different answers, but as for myself I never put any firearm to bed without cleaning it first.

There are several members at our local club who practice the "non cleaning" technique with their .22's... They are the ones who will usually get failure to fire because of a dirty stuck firing pin, failure to feed causing jams because of a dirty fouled breech in their semi-auto's and those with bolt actions have a heck of a time chambering the next round. Their accuracy is pretty much non-existent because they've never thought of the idea of getting the lead out of the bore. Why? Because someone during their lifetime has told them they don't have to clean a .22...

Eventually some will come around and clean their rifle once it simply stops functioning, and every round is a chore to load, or a misfire. However, they will wait for the next cleaning when their firearm stops functioning once again.

This is what I've seen of others and their firearms - those who do not maintain their equipment/firearm.

There are those of us that do not experience what the "non-cleaning" group experiences, as we maintain our firearms & magazines.

Judge for yourself someday at your local range. Watch how trouble free those who maintain their equipment get through a shooting session. Then watch how those who neglect their equipment and notice how much trouble they are having. The differnce is night and day.

Just my two cents worth on the subject of cleaning.

Sorry for such a long winded post.



RichinKansas
Reply with quote  #5 
The no need to clean myth has been around since I was a junior shooter 50 years ago. The A-17 target was larger and maybe the guns didn't need to be as accurate as today using an a-36. I still remember a highly regarded coach telling me a rimfire doesn't reach its optimum accuracy till its had about 100,000 rounds.

Factory barrels do need some break-in, 500 rounds or so in my opinion. But even with custom barrels the throat needs some break-in. There can be some sharp edges where the throat is cut. So to shoot some 500 rounds of cheap ammo cleaning every 50 rounds or so is not a bad idea.

I think the reason cleaning has got such a bad rap is that with some rifles it takes a bit for them to start shooting good again after being cleaned. Some claim as much as 50 rounds. I have never seen more than 15 rounds needed. It seems like the better the barrel / chamber the less fouling is needed.

My two .22 bench guns both shoot the first shot high about 11 o'clock after cleaning. Then the next three are in one hole. I always shoot 4 quick shots just to make sure a new layer of lube is laid down in the bore. I have an old Martini that seems to take about 10 shots before it can be trusted.

But all my rimfire guns have proven they shoot better if regularly cleaned including factory sporters. My bench guns shoot best if cleaned no more than 100 rounds. I clean them after every target in competition. Best way to tell is to take a really clean gun in ideal conditions (indoors or early morning) and start shooting 5 shot groups. See how long before it reaches its accuracy potential and how many before accuracy falls off. When I say falls off it might only be a tenth or so but that can be costly in a match. Every guns seems a bit different and can be different based on the brand of ammo too.

But if not cleaned properly with a bore guide etc., cleaning can damage a bore. Rich
BradY
Reply with quote  #6 
You could give the barrel a couple of passes with a mild abrasive bore cleaner. Not sure what you have, but hand lapping the barrel a couple of strokes probably wont hurt. I did it to a marlin 925 22lr and was surprised at the bits of steel that came out.

It shoots very well now (only a hunting gun) and will make clover leafs with winchester subsonics at 50yds and inch groups at 100yds with winchester power points.
Benjerman08
Reply with quote  #7 
After all is said and done, I have the rifle shooting groups of 3 and all touching. It was a combination of two things. (1) It needed cleaned more and may still be breaking in and (2) It does not like the high velocity as much as the lower stuff like scout mentioned. I found some Federa Gold Medal and was amazed at how well it shot. Glad this forum is here and thanks to everyone.
rangerruck
Reply with quote  #8 
here is a bit of advice; though not an old timer, I have shot most all rimfires from 700 bucks on down, including the 17's.
when I get a new rifle, I never, ever , start it with a scope, if it has any kind of sites. I allways go to the 50 yard line, put up about 20-1 inch dots, and shoot away. this removes the scope in the questioning of accuracy. all screws should be checked first, before going to the range, and takedown screws , are usually good with about 20 lbs of torque, maybe 25. it is almost a guarantee, whether wood stock or not, that the bbl channel has to be dug out some more, and you cannot test this cold, you need to slam about 50 rounds down the tube, as fast as you can, to heat it up, then check the freefloat. if it is a synth stock, you need to go to home despot or some such, and get some aluminum tape, and put a few band aid sized layers, in the sides, front, back, and bottom of the receiver area of the stock; I don't care how tight your action screws are, unless that is a perfectly made for that particular rifle/ synth stock, the action will move inside of it , just a bit. The Aluminum tape acts as quicky
bedding job, to keep the action/receiver still, inside the stock.
As you know, there is a ton of 22 ammo out there, so lets narrow it down a bit, as to what generally works either very well, to excellent , across the board, in most rifles.
CCI, any rounds.
Aguila, any rounds.
eley, any rounds.
golden eagle, any rounds-last three all made by Eley.
wolf, any rounds.
American Eagle , red box, made by federal.
Winchester, any rounds.
Federal, any rounds.
Winny and feddy bulk,
AVOID REMINGTON AT ALL TIMES, except orange box and yellow
box, which are made by Eley anyway. AVOID hyper velocity rounds.

there are a few other great, and expensive rounds out there,
but if you cannot find about 10 good ones, from the above list,
you got a dog of a rifle.

Now then, we are nowhere near close to being done, once you find about 10 rounds that group very well, you need a thorough
cleaning of the bore, making sure you have removed all copper.
after all the above testing, you should easily have past the 500
round mark, since eley makes about 20 diff types, so does aguila
,so does cci, and feddy and winny put together, make about 20 diff kinds of rounds.
If you have not scoped it yet, now is the time to scope it. See now again, at 25 or 50 yards, the same 10 diff rounds make the grade. After testing these again, it is time for another fabulously good cleaning; get all that copper out.
you are still not done- you have now checked it and found it's favorite rounds, it is fully free floated, it is scoped, you checked the screws, you torqued the action screws, and you have got it down to 10 good diff types of rounds. narrow it down now to 5 favorite rounds.
Now you need to repeat all the above, everything, but this time, add a small pressure pad, up front, between the tip of the
stock, and the bbl. again, Home Despot, will have some drawer
cabinet rubber bump pads, that are small, clear, round, and smaller in diameter than the size of a dime, that is perfect for
this. Repeat all the above, with the pressure pad in place,
and see what ammo works best, again,TESTING ALL THE ROUNDS
OVER, from the start, and see what gives you smaller
groups; a fully freefloated, or padded bbl.
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