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Sisu
Reply with quote  #1 
Yesterday I got two failure to fires using wolf small rifle magnum primers and I’m wondering where do I go from here? But first a little background. I’m trying to develop a load for my new 6.5x47. I started with RE17, 140gr Bergers and wolf SRM primers. I was using 40.4gr at 2780fps. Some days it would shoot other days it wouldn’t. I switched to H4350, everything else being the same. I worked up to 42 grains of H4350 and I got 2839fps with no pressure signs. I loaded up some more rounds at 41.5gr starting .100” off the lands and worked to .020” into the lands. The very first round I think I got a pierced primer (the primer hole was black, but I could not see through the primer.) The next shot is when I got the FTF, I thought that is odd. I continued to shoot the rest with no problems until my last one that was .020” into the lands. This one too was a FTF.

I’m using a Hornady hand primer and when the brass was new it was really hard to seat the primers. As I was seating them I could feel the primer seat as usual. The 2nd feeling I never felt before. (I normally use a Lee hand primer for my LR primers.) If I pressed harder I think that it was the anvil seating further.

I would normally just try again and see what happens but I ran out of the 140gr Bergers. So I’m asking you guys because this is going to eat at me. The load shot great so I would like to use it. For the various seating depths it shot 3 shot groups from .066” - .371”. Velocity was from 2810fps – 2839fps depending on the seating depth. With the 3 shot groups never going over 10 fps (+/- 8fps)


So far this is what I can think of….

1) The load density was too great with 41.5gr of powder and the small rifle primer
2) This was my 4th reloading of the brass and the primer pockets loosened up. I seated the primers too deep because I was used to having to force them in.
3) I don’t think that it’s the rifle, because it’s a GAP built Surgeon action.
4) I just thought of this… but I dropped two primers on the concrete. I picked them up and seated them….It seems odd that I dropped two with two failure to fires?
5) Just bad primers, I’ve heard of others having hang fire issues, but never any FTF’s. (Because of the primer shortage I bought 5000 of the Wolfs so I would like to try and make these work.)
6) The pierced primer broke something in my rifle?


Any ideas what the problem might be? Should I feel that secondary crush when seating primers? I never had any failure to fires before so I don’t know where I should go from here.
GerryM
Reply with quote  #2 
Maybe your primer pocket are too deep.
The other thing is sizing. If you bumped the shoulder s back when reloading you could create excessive head space.
Take a look and see what you have . If the same case are reloaded and they work ok with the same die set up Then i would suspect the primer pockets and excessive force seating the primer. Hope this helps
eggman
Reply with quote  #3 
I have not had misfires using Wolf primers but did have hang fires . This was with the Large Rifle and the Small Rifle Magnum with gold cups . I believe it was due to me seating the primer further after it first makes contact with the bottom of the primer pocket. I had heard that Wolf primers had to be firmly seated and thats what I did. In doing this I think I did something to the anvil to cause the hang fires. While paying close attention to this I have not had any further hang fires with the Large Rifle primers and cannot comment on the Small Rifle primers because I sold them at a loss to get rid of them. No more Wolf primers for me .

Rodney
mharpster
Reply with quote  #4 
I have had a FTF and hangfires in the first 30 rounds I shot using Wolf small rifle magnum primers. This was using new Lapua 6BR brass. Some people think the primers weren't fully seated, now eggman thinks he seated his too deep. I have not had time to do any experimenting with primer seating depth, but if it's that sensitive, I won't be using Wolf primers. I have never had any of these problems with over 10,000 Rem. 7 1/2's or CCI BR4's.

Mike
Sisu
Reply with quote  #5 
I pulled the bullets and everything looked normal. The inside of the primers also looked normal. On one of the two the headspace was bumped back .005", I don't think this could cause an issue. (I normally FL resize and bump back .002". But I had the wrong shell holder in so it was bumped more the usual.)

If it wasn't for the difficulty of finding reloading components, I wouldn't have bought 5000 primers to start off with In 20 years of reloading I have never had this happen. I'm disappointed with Wolf.
GerryM
Reply with quote  #6 
I would not be so quick to blame the primers.
You have to remember that they have a harder cup then the standard primers. If you increase the bump you also change the firing pin protrusion. Some of these new actions have a weaker firing pin spring also.
I had one rifle that needed cleaning of the firing pin assembly. Crud got inside via the firing pin and it was very dirty there. So far i have shot 5,000 Wolf primer;s I had one misfire.
It was from not having the bullet into the lands {loaded long} for fire forming.
They shot extremely well for me this summer also.
I can't say a bad thing about these primers.
Sure if i could get American primers again i would go back
to my usually kind{CCI BR 4} but they don't exist anymore.
I have heard rumors though about the quality of some of the newer American primers coming off the line.
I won't comment on this yet.
The American companies making ammo are stressed out right now. 24/7 is a long week for any one.
1shot
Reply with quote  #7 
I use both small and large Wolf primers exclusively. I just started on my 2nd 10K of each and noticed that the cups are now brass colored as opposed to the silver ones from the previous batch. I have never experienced a FTF in 223 or 6mmAR in over two seasons of shooting them until the other day in my new 6.5x47. This happened in a brand new Kelblys Atlas action, with virgin Lapua brass. The primer was struck very well the first time, but I tried it again. My only conclusions are either the primer pockets are a little deep, (I don't think this is the issue) I didn't seat that primer as firmly as is needed, or because of the recent alleged primer shortage, the QC may have slipped a little. The only common factor I've seen on here is the cartridge, and the fact that there is only one brass source, and the primer being used. I will continue to use Wolf primers as the produce lower and more consistent ES and SD numbers in all my cartridges than other primers.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
GerryM
Reply with quote  #8 
1 shot
I think you did have a misfire
If you noticed the wolf are in the boxes anvil up..
Maybe Just maybe one Did not receive it's disc on the production line. If you look at the take down on a primer you will see a cup a disc and an anvil. The disc is the charge.
This can happen to any primer at any time.
I had the f brand do this before.
That didn't make me use them.
The high production rates can cause this . Equipment sometime skips also. We are lucky to get the quality we have.
The machinery run very fast. All Brands
The Br [primers had one final inspection along with the F brand. From what I have been told that is the only difference with the F brand
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