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| FatBoy | | | chuckw2 |
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Reply with quote | #2 |
Chris,
It seems to me that we are really shooting ourselves on the foot by shooting different targets than the prone boys. We need to keep things as simple as possible, we need to make it easy for F-Class shooters to shoot with the prone people not harder.
Are there too many 600-60x and 450-45x being shot? Did we have to have any shoot-offs at ORSA this October, I don't remember any.
As far as no records being established, that's bull crap. Jeff Cochran IS the National Champion for 2005 and will always be the National Champion in my book for 2005. Jeff and Bret Soloman fought right down to the last shot on Sunday. It was great. These boys deserve to be in the books, all of them do that shoot well in their class.
The NRA is not helping us here, the point blank shooters are not affiliated with the NRA, why do we have to be?
Who decided on our rules?
At F-Class only matches I don't care which targets we shoot, but when we shoot with other disciplines we need to shoot their targets.
Makes you want to shoot any/any all the time.
Chuck |
| | | dmoran |
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Reply with quote | #3 |
Chris ... Thanks for posting the 2006 rules.
Chuck ...... I agree with you !!!! Good response !!!
At F-Class only matches, I don't care what targets are shot. But when shooting at other High Power matches, the same targets should be shot to keep the matches simple and hassle free.
Happy Shooting
Donovan Moran
LaMoure, ND
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| | | JeffT |
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Guys,
the targets are paste on centers, it's just like re-facing a shot up target center. Larry B. went to great efforts to get f-class recognized, and to have some rules to go by. These rules are pretty much the same internationally. As far as the scores,at the nationals, they improved astronomicaly from 2004-2005. In 2004, John Brewer blew everybody away with a 1198-79X (I think) this year that would not have got you in the top 5, this year my buddy Jeff Cochran won with a 1200-91X. You can shoot any target you want to at local matches, the scores just don't count in regards to classification or records. This is not any different than having "service rifle" shooters in their own class. Lets give it a chance before we condem it.
Jeff Traylor |
| | | FatBoy |
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Reply with quote | #5 |
Chuck,
Alright,, we're gonna move down the list one at a time.
Quote: Originally Posted by chuckw2
Chris,
It seems to me that we are really shooting ourselves on the foot by shooting different targets than the prone boys.
The targets look exactly the same from the firing line.
Quote: We need to keep things as simple as possible, we need to make it easy for F-Class shooters to shoot with the prone people not harder.
I 100% agree. That is why the targets look EXACTLY the same from the firing line. Internationl shooters use a white, .5 moa x ring. At least they did last year.
Quote: Are there too many 600-60x and 450-45x being shot? Did we have to have any shoot-offs at ORSA this October, I don't remember any.
I agree with that as well, with the caveat that at some point in the not too distant future, we're going to need new targets. The equipment is getting to a point where a slacker like me can shoot good scores with no real practice. The .5 moa target not only gives us some breathing room for the future, but it allows us to fall in line with most of the international targets. This allows for an esiers transition for our shooter who travel.
I could live with a shoot-off situation too,, but that wasn't my call. I think the .5 moa x ring will work.
Did I mension they look exactly like the prone targets from the line? 
Quote: As far as no records being established, that's bull crap. Jeff Cochran IS the National Champion for 2005 and will always be the National Champion in my book for 2005. Jeff and Bret Soloman fought right down to the last shot on Sunday. It was great. These boys deserve to be in the books, all of them do that shoot well in their class.
Yup, bullshit. But what can you do? This makes me wonder how many people will go to California this year. They already know that their scores won't count toward records. Takes some of the fun out of it. I'd still go,, but I shoot for the competition and comradre.
Quote: The NRA is not helping us here, the point blank shooters are not affiliated with the NRA, why do we have to be?
Because if F class ceases to be a rifle catagory in NRA highpower, guys like me will stop having F class matches. then., we compete for ranges that are already almost impossible to get. Where's that leave F class, or Prone?
Quote: Who decided on our rules?
The Highpower committee. Larry Bartholome was on it this year, as well as two long range prone shooters. That is the best representation long range shooters have ever had, as far as I know.
Once the class gets legs, shooters decide the rules by filling out requests and comments and forwarding them to the NRA competition division. Those requests are gone over at the annual highpower committe meeting.
Quote: At F-Class only matches I don't care which targets we shoot, but when we shoot with other disciplines we need to shoot their targets.
Someone told me the targets look EXACTLY the same from the firing line.
Quote: Makes you want to shoot any/any all the time.
ha ha,, I'm WAY ahead of ya 
Let's let the rules go into place, and the targets come out,a nd give it a chace before we start saying how it's not going to work. I think it's gonna turn out fine.
The classification percentages,, VERY hard on a .5 moa target. They're probably where the Prone classification should be now, while using the full MOA targets that is.
Chris... |
| | | chuckw2 |
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Reply with quote | #6 |
Once again cooler heads prevail.
Heck,I might like the new system better.
As I get a little long in the tooth, I want to keep things as uncomplicated as possible. I will take target centers with me to the six ranges where I shoot, just in case they don't have them. At a some of these matches, I will be the only F-Class shooter, and I don't want them to think that we(F-Class) are a pain in the butt.
I want every shot that I fire to be registered.
Thanks,
Chuck Wetherington
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| | | Travelor |
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Reply with quote | #7 |
The new provisional rules have been a long time coming and I truly appreciate the guys that worked so hard to get them started. I see nothing but positive in the rules with the exception of the new target/scoring issue. I suspect that the "old traditional" iron sight guys have an underlying agenda in this to reduce the scores of the F-Class shooters by reducing the target scoring sizes - thus not having F-Class shooters scores to be at or better than theirs.
The Club I shoot F-Class with has absolutely no problems with F-Class shooting with the "traditional" iron sight guns. In fact, they seem to go out of their way to encourage and work with and help us. I truly believe that this will continue even with the added effort required to adding extra target boards with the new centers.
A lot of use are new to LR rifle shooting. Believe me, going to a range with a not knowing the other shooters and shooting for the first time with bunch of hard holding experienced High Master HP rifle shooters at long ranges can be very intimidating to say the least! It really doesn't matter what size the targets are as long as we all shoot the same target.
I have read a bunch of posts where the F-Class shooters are just barely being tolerated at their Club matches. Changing the centers between relays and decreasing the F-Class scores will do nothing to encourage the new shooters or cause the "traditional" shooters to welcome the new guys. If I were to hazard a guess, I would bet these Clubs will not be willing to change the centers and tell the F-Class shooters that this class is no longer available at their Club. This is not conducive to the future of the sport or to shooting/gun ownership in general.
I agree with others that the change in centers will be detrimental to this class.
George Toney |
| | | chuckw2 |
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Reply with quote | #8 |
Travelor(George),
You are making the exact same point that concerns me. A LOT of clubs that I have shot, do not welcome F-Class shooters. Sometimes I will be the only F-Class shooter at the match and will get some snide comments from the HP shooters, it does'nt bother me, but, but, it might keep some new people that are trying F-Class for the first time out of the arena.
I wish we had brought about the changes in targets after we were a little bit better established.
We have a great discipline in it infancy, I hope we can continue to make it grow.
Chuck
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